How does icy manipulator work

Tom Wylie What is the difference between apathy and ignorance? That's not what it says in the huge rules clarifications file posted here a few days ago. If you declare your attack, that actually means: "I'm going to attack, so you still have the chance to do some fast effects. So, the order is as follows: A declares he's going to attack B and A have the opportunity to do fast effects A taps his creatures he wants to attack with The same goes for the end of your turn.

Computer Wetenschappen phi I think you are misunderstanding what he is saying. Yes, people will say they are going to attack, HOWEVER, if you already declared certain creatures for the attack and THEN icy manipulate a creature already commited to the attack, you will get your hand slapped.

The general question is: how good is an Icy Manipulator at preventing a creature from attacking? I know that when it taps something, the. I assume the answer is no. But I've just noticed that there is a phase 0. Am I on track here, or is there something I'm missing? Seems to me the clarifications on Icy Manipulator should mention what happens when you tap to prevent an attack. Nearly perfect. If the effect is a fast effect, then this is correct.

The use here is to force the opponent to use the effect when you want him to rather then when he wants to. Of course not. Not true. Before the attack phase, you always have the opportunity to play fast effects. If your opponent declares he's attacking, you can tell him to back up so you can play the fast effects at the end of the main phase.

I've read all of the Icy Manipulator posts with interest, since my usual opponent and I both frequently put one in our decks. I haven't seen anyone address one particular issue maybe it's because I have an incorrect definition of "paradox" but anyhow, here goes The Icy Manipulator has a key phrase at the end of it's description: "Target card generates no effects" Now, as I understand the rules about arbitrating fast effects, if there's a paradox direct contradiction , the responder decides on the ordering of things.

So, it seems like there are two cases: 1 attacker taps monster-X and announces an attack defender Icy-manipulates monster-X 2 defender Icy-manipulates monster-X before attacker announces an attack defender announces an attack with monster-X bear with me here Since tapping to attack and icy manipulating are both fast effects, and they are directly contradictory i.

Thus he'll say that the Icy-manipulation happens first, thus rendering the creature unable to attack. And in case 2, the defender gets to decide.

Of course, he'll choose to have the attack happen first, thus generating the attack and tapping the card, rendering the icy manipulation useless. This implies to me that the Icy Manipulator is a primarily reactive card. You should wait until someone does something you don't want them to do, then icy manipulate them, so you get to decide the order and thus render the effect useless.

I'm kind of expecting to be told that I'm incorrect about this issue, since the explanations I've seen thus far seem to be making different assumptions than I am.

If the above reasoning is incorrect, please explain in detail. But the latest General Rulings post describes the Attack Sequence in gory detail, and it begins like this: 0. Declare intention to attack. Opponent gets the chance to use any fast effects or instants in response to this claim. Declare attackers So it seems like there is an instant between declaration of intention to attack and declaration of attacking creatures during which a creature could become tapped.

So I should be able to wait until my opponent says he's going to attack to decide whether to use the Icy on a creature.

If he doesn't attack, and instead says he's done, rulings also say "I'm done" means "I'm done unless you're going to do something else" , I can tap something else with it instead, a wall, say, and have the Icy untap for another use during my turn. Is this correct, or is the General Rulings document mistaken? I know it's not an official document, but the Attack Sequence apparently was pieced together from the FAQ. Yup, but it doesn't mean what you think it means. Read "Target card generates no effects as a result of being manipulated" instead.

Aren't the jurors still out on that one, Tom? I think they might be changing the Combat announcement to be a Fast Effect, like Upkeep I hate to say it, but they've swayed me over to their side now, too I don't like this.

The Manipulator is powerful enough as it is, it doesn't need this power boost. You are welcome to use the Icy Manipulator or any other fast effect in the Upkeep phase of your opponent's turn, before they enter Main and have a chance to declare an attack.

AS well, I believe I heard somewhere that fast effects are allowed as a reaction to end of phase in the new rules. ANd, again, your opponent HAS to give you a chance to perform them. So, they have to give you a chance to use your Icy Manipulator in reaction to the end of upkeep phase. However, the moment you declare your creatures are attacking, they are tapped.

Using the Icy manipulator to tap them at the same time does NOT prevent them from attacking. Or shouldn't, IMHO. Icy manipulator is not an interrupt. It wants a creature to be tapped when it finishes. When a creature is declared to attack, it is tapped. The person waited too long to use it.

OTOH, the attack declaration is not a fast effect, so if the Icy taps a creature before the attack, you can NOT declare an attack as a fast effect to the Icy's tap. Heacock sa Icy Manipulator, even though the effect is an instant, once a creature in in the charge of the attack, he is already commited to it He cannot be prevented from attack with the Icy Manipulator. Now if it was Lightning Bolted, Rod of Ruined or other some such means, it would work.

In this case, it's my turn, and you want to use IM to tap one of my creatures so it can't attack. Dialog: ME: I Fireball you for 4. YOU: Bummer. You're starting your attack phase? ME: Yes. YOU: I have a fast effect to respond to the end of your last phase. I use Icy Manipulator to tap your Vampire. ME: Bummer. YOU: I tap your vampire before the start of your attack phase.

I attack with my other creatures, since that one's tapped. Declaring the start of your attack phase before you declare attackers makes life a lot easier, and it doesn't change anything about what you can and can't do. Careful there. An attack is not a phase, it's something you can do during the main phase. How do you like to best upstage your opponent? Do you run roughshod over their defenses with big creatures, or do you prefer to steal the best creatures for your own attacks?

Do you wait until your opponent is poised for the win and wipe the board, or do you ensure with a few well-timed counterspells that their linchpin combo never happens in the first place? Do you lightning strike your opponent before they get off the ground, or do you play defensively, turtleing until you are poised for an unstoppable countermove?

This process ensures that you get to play in a way that suits you, and you have a lot of leeway in your decision making. The second way you can influence your play style is with the cards that you tend to — or insist upon — using. That is, players are going to use cards that resonate with them on some level, be it because of nostalgia, style, or that they simply are powerful cards.

If you are building a Blue deck, for example, how emphatic are you to including counters? How about bounce spells? These are your personalized signature cards. For one reason or another, you developed an attachment to those cards and like to use them as much as possible. This is because they either reinforce or help shape our style of play.

Nicol Bolas. For four mana, this artifact is cheap and slow enough to be included in just about any casual multiplayer. Plus, in settings like Commander, the table politics of being able to help or hurt as needed is impossible to overlook. Case in point: it has a mere one mana activation.

This makes it a more than ideal reaction card because you it requires so little investment into defending yourself or someone else. Thus, you can still leverage the rest of your mana for your own purposes without having to keep half of your land untapped to stop something that may or may not be heading your way. On top of that, Icy Manipulator also affects the three prime tapping candidates. Icy Manipulator is arguably much better at stopping small creature offenses than mobs of tokens, but that hardly undercuts its versatility.